Recently, there was a Facebook discussion on Provo Forward about Walmart, sales tax, and Downtown Provo. I love this type of discussion, so of course I weighed in. Here is what I wrote (with some additional comments and context in parentheses).
As a mayoral candidate, here are some of my thoughts. Provo needs sales tax revenue–it makes up 30% of our budget and is the highest source of our revenue. ½ % of all sales tax in the state is divided out to cities based on population, and another ½ % is returned to cities at point of sale. Provo is missing out on a lot of point of sale sales tax, (and our sales tax revenue has been declining over the last four years). It is vital that we start bringing some of this point of sale tax back to Provo.
(I made a series of videos about taxes in my Mondays With Marsha series. You can access the one where I explain sales tax HERE.)
About Walmart: There was $1 million that was set aside for a grocery store on Provo’s west side that never materialized. This is now being used as an incentive to bring Walmart to South Provo. Walmart seems like a positive step to add to point of sale tax for Provo, especially if additional retail and services grow around it. However, whenever taxpayer dollars are used as an incentive, it is very important that there is transparency for taxpayers. I expect the city has done a cost/benefit analysis to see how long it would take for the taxes generated by Walmart to make up for the $1 million that is being offered. The public should see this.
About Downtown: Provo’s Downtown has the potential to be one of the best in Utah. It is quirky, mostly historic, and has great shops. I have not been in the meetings where Downtown is discussed and so I might be missing something, but I have not seen the city do much to make it more of a destination and economically viable. I have ideas, but pertaining to this conversation, I hope the city has done a cost/benefit comparison between investing the $1 million on Walmart and investing it on revitalizing Downtown. This should be made public. Our local businesses are the backbone and economic driver of Provo. We need a plan for Downtown, and this has become increasingly urgent after the wakeup call from the geyser there a few weeks ago. (The pipes under Center Street are only 30 years old, but they were not installed properly. The soil is “hot” and chemically reacts with the pipes, causing them to decay quickly. The pipes need to be replaced, but it would be fiscally prudent to have a plan for any changes we might want to make to enhance Center Street before we dig up the road.)
About the Towne Center Mall redevelopment: I think this is a solid plan to vitalize this area. I am excited to see where this goes.
About additional opportunities for point of sale: We need to look at the needs of communities and rezone to allow for retail and services in underserved communities. West and Southeast Provo aren’t asking for big box stores, we need a neighborhood grocery. Visitors coming to tournaments or using Provo airport would like somewhere to get something to eat or a place to stay without driving for miles. We can’t force retail or services to build, but we can at least offer the opportunity.
I am always open to listening to ideas and answering questions. Good governance requires transparency and open dialogue. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.
Kathleen Marie Christensen says:
The last thing any town needs is another Walmart. It brings lower prices, but with cheap products. The atmosphere in and around most Walmarts is a bit trashy, dark, and many shooting events seem to take place in and around them. Provo needs something that brings light, safety, and cleanliness.
Marsha Judkins says:
Kathleen, thank you for your feedback. If Walmart does come in, I hope we will keep it nice. There is an idea for a redevelopment of Provo Towne Center Mall that would revitalize that area and bring in a great mix of local and larger retail and services.
Rachel Wuthrich says:
Redeveloping the Mall and bringing more variety through different stores would feel better than another Walmart. Just putting in another International Big Name Corp, when we could have more local shops or even a Winco, is not what we need.
Marsha Judkins says:
Rachel, thank you for your input. I agree with you. I would like to see more local stores, shops, and services. I do shop at Walmart, but we need to be careful to not overlook the great benefits that local, more invested businesses bring to Provo.
Mrs. Lua says:
what is the meaning of those 20 signs?
Marsha Judkins says:
Thanks for asking! The 20 is Plenty signs are to encourage traffic in residential neighborhoods to slow down a bit.
Susan Greer says:
I happen to like shopping at Walmart. I try to shop in Provo so the profits will stay where I live but I like the one stop shopping. Which brings up the point that I thought Provo Mall Target was a huge disappointment. I was expecting an upstairs downstairs, I’ll never need to go anywhere else, shopping experience.
Marsha Judkins says:
Susan, I like shopping at Walmart for the same reason, and I also thought Target was going to be a lot larger with both upstairs and downstairs.
Dagoberto Estrada says:
I agree. Provo Mall’s Target is a disappointment and easy to forget when I need to go shopping. A mall entrance inside the store would have been nice, so we don’t have to walk outside to do more shopping or get a bite. I live on the west side of Provo, and anything that could make our lives easier is welcome. I have always wondered why Provo doesn’t do anything to bring more businesses and increase sales tax. Thanks for getting the conversation going. Hopefully, we can vote in leaders who care more about keeping BYU happy.
Sharon Lohner says:
I would like to know why we have cheapened Provo by allowing so many townhouses/condos whatever you want to call them go up? And why was it allowed when we don’t have the road system to accommodate them? All of the traffic has created a mess!
Marsha Judkins says:
Sharon, I have not been involved in those decisions. We do need to consider parking, traffic flow, and other infrastructure when approving any development. I would love to see denser student housing south of campus and more for sale, affordable family homes in neighborhoods.
M. Fogleman says:
I’m a BYU student, and I think redeveloping the mall is a fantastic idea. Every time I go there it feels like a ghost town, and the mall in Orem is always way too crowded. It would be very convenient for students to have a mall and a serious Walmart in the city instead of in a neighboring one. The less we need to drive, the better for everyone.
Also, I love the downtown! Now that I know how tax revenue works for the city, I’d like to shop more locally.
Marsha Judkins says:
Thank you for your comment! I think you’re absolutely right about the Towne Center Mall development. Hopefully I’ll see you downtown sometime. 😘
Heidi Perez says:
What West Provo really wants is a WinCo, not another Walmart. We can drive 10 minutes to get to 3 Walmarts already. We don’t need or want another one. It takes 15-20 minutes, though, to get to WinCo. But I’m willing to drive it bc the prices and atmosphere are so much better than the grocery stores and Walmarts closer-by. And I see neighbors there all the time, so I know I’m not the only one. For a while, there was a rumor circulating that we were getting a WinCo, and everyone was excited. And when we found out it would be a Walmart, we here in West Provo felt unheard and overridden yet again.
Marsha Judkins says:
I would be happy with a Days Market out here. A nighborhood friendly place that our community can shop at and that keeps our (sort of) rural feel. 🙂
Kaysha M says:
I live on the west side and I definitely do not want a WinCo. I’d rather have a Walmart if those are our two options. But a Days Market? — Yes please! That would be my number 1 vote!
Marsha Judkins says:
I think a Day’s Market would be great!!
Tamara Hammond says:
First, I agree with/ Kathleen C. That the last thing a town needs is Walmart. This $1M could be used for:
Public Transportation
Provo is a student town – with 35,000 students at BYU. Many of them don’t have cars or are lucky to live on campus. They need transportation.
28% of Provo’s population is under the age of 18 – or 83,000 ppl who depend on their parents for transportation.
7% are over 65 – additional 8,000 people who potentially will have their licenses revoked or will stop driving- they can use transportation
As you know, Europe, Japan, Russia, China, and most of the world have excellent public transportation- cheep, clean and fast – light railways and bullet trains. The US lags behind the developed world. There isn’t much we can do nationally but we can do locally with you, Marsha. Provo can become the envy of the nation if we achieve this basic accommodation.
It will bring revenue, it will solve the problem of air politics and it will accommodate all 115,000 residents of Provo.
Marsha Judkins says:
Tamara, you make great points. We cannot keep widening roads–it does not solve our congestion or transportation issues. We need to be smart, look at the data and transportation patterns, and figure out the best ways for people to get where they need to go. Public transportation is vital to the groups that you mentioned, as well as for those with disabilities or conditions and that can’t drive.
Michael says:
At the District 3 Meeting tonight on 8/20. Cody, our Economic Development Director denied that the $1 Million you mentioned was used for this purpose.
Who is wrong, you or him?
Marsha Judkins says:
Michael, I tried to respond to the email address that you provided and it bounced back. If you want a more detailed answer, please email me.
I was at the District 3 meeting and heard the question and answer about the $1 million. Director Hill never denied nor confirmed it in his answer. About five years ago, $1 million of ARPA funds was set aside to incentivize a west side grocery store. These funds have not been used. The Walmart has been advertised as a west side grocery store, and I was told that this money was going to be used as part of this deal. However, until it is made public and approved by the council, it is not official or for sure, so we will have to wait and see. By the way, to my understanding, ARPA funds were to be committed by the end of 2024 and have to be expended by the end of next year. I am not sure how that is playing out with these funds.
Casey says:
Those were the nonnegotiable rules we were given for ARPA funds at my work, encumbered by the end of 2024 and spent by the end of 2026. They know exactly where those funds are committed at this point and should be transparent about it. It’s troubling to hear that they haven’t been.
As for the West Provo grocery store issue, Ivory Homes has been saying since at least 2019 that they want to bring a grocery store like Harmons into Broadview Shores. That seems like something that won’t happen for many years, if at all. I don’t think the Walmart or the location for it fully meets the needs for everyone in the West Provo. When it was announced as a big win I was disappointed that it would end all momentum toward actually getting something out here. I look forward to seeing you working on this issue.
Marsha Judkins says:
Casey, thank you for your response and insight. I would like more transparency on the ARPA funds. If they are not being used as an incentive for Walmart, what are they being used for? Did we miss the committment window? Inquiring minds would like to know. 🙂
In addition to convenience and less travel (which is super important), one of the reasons a neighborhood grocery is important is because it creates a space for neighbors to gather and see each other. We need more spaces like that in West Provo (so do other Provo neighborhoods). When developers create acres of housing with no room for central open or gathering spaces, it is more difficult to feel connected.